Criminal justice reform activist seeking to improve indigent defense

“If a public defender has three times as many cases as they handle and says ‘ I cannot do this anymore” you’re going to have to dismiss these cases or find some other way. You might decide that mass incarceration is a bad idea.”

“There’s nobody coming to the U.S. saying, ‘we’s really like your system of mass incarceration., seems to do wonderfrul things’ because they know we have the highest recidivism rates in the world. I call it a criminogenic system. It’s producing crime.”

“We are warehousing people. Most do not need to be incarcerated. You need to replace that very expensive and totally unworkable system with a robust social service delivery system where people are out with their family.”

Recorded on July 6, 2026.